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My dog picks up the bird and brings it back to me but drops it 10 feet away. What can I do?
My dog has come up lame every time I run him. Any ideas of what may be the problem?
Are gun shy dogs born or made that way by bad training methods?
I have an eight month Lab that never gave me no problems retrieving. About a week ago she totally shut down. She won't bring me nothing back anymore. I sit there and tease her with a dummy or a quail wing and when she gets it I encourage her to bring it back but she either drops it or leaves it there. She seems like she isn't interested in retrieving anymore. My question is should I try to make her force fetch or is this a phase that she is going through?
I need advice on getting my setter to swim. The purpose for getting him to swim would be in case a pheasant is shot which lands across a creek - it would be valuable to have the setter retrieve the bird. The problem is he doesn't swim efficiently - whenever he tries he raises up his head and splashes with his front feet - getting through the water very slowly and inefficiently. He is then reluctant to go into deeper water. I tried having him hold a dummy and swimming (to weigh down the front) but it didn't help. I don't want to get into a battle with him as he is doing very well with his pointing, steady to wing & shot, and retrieving on land. Any ideas on getting him to be more efficient in the water? Or should I abandon the idea and just let my lab retrieve when water is involved?
What is the best way to
stop the dog from flushing the birds without a
e-collar?
The key to keeping a pointing dog steady is to teach him WHOA. There
are numerous methods of teaching WHOA, but which ever one you use the dog must
have a thorough respect for this command and must obey it every time.
After this has been accomplished you then start putting the dog on planted
pigeons or quail and reinforce the natural pointing instinct by telling him to
WHOA when he hits scent. Then when you get into the hunting field, your
dog should stop when he hit scent and you reinforce it with a
WHOA.
Brent
There is saying that Ron Craven quotes regularly, "Volunteers can always
quit". The only sure method to fix this problem is to go through a
trained retrieve program, also known as force fetch. There are several
books and tapes in the club library on this subject. Also the club holds a
trained retrieve class during the winter months. Trained retrieve is
usually a 6-8 week process.
Brent
Most gun shy dogs are made that way, not born that way. The best way to
fix this problem is preventing it from becoming a problem. Careful, slow
introduction to the gun is the key. Start with loud noises while they are
eating, then progress to firing a blank gone a good distance away from the dog
when they are distracted doing something else. Gradually progress till you
are firing near the dog. The cure for a gun shy dog is basically the same
as described above, but be much more careful and slow in your approach.
Brent
The old adage that you cant teach an old dog new tricks is bunk. And
besides, your dog is not old at all. A lot of trainers don't get serious
about training until the dog is at least a year old. The first year and
maybe two socialization and basic obedience are the most important things to
work on. From my experience you do more harm by going to fast and too soon
than too slow or too late. Sounds like your dog has a good foundation to
build upon and at two will have the emotional maturity to really excel with some
well structured training. I would start putting a good "whoa" on
this dog and you should have a lot of fun during hunting season.
Brent
One of our Brittany's had a similar thing happen, it turned out to be a broken
bone in his carpel joint. You might have them x-ray his foot.
Conrad
I am a physical therapist who has done some work with dogs. I may have some
insight into your dog Max's lame shoulder problem. Without seeing him I would
not want to commit to any "diagnosis" however here are two ideas you
might want to discuss with your vet. Infraspinatus contracture is one
possibility. The infraspinatus is a muscle in the shoulder blade. This problem
occurs almost exclusively in hunting and field trial dogs and consists of
shortening of the infraspinatus muscle and its tendon due to scar tissue
formation. The history of the dog usually involves minor trauma, such as a fall,
that resulted in foreleg lameness. Over time the leg appears shortened and is
held out to the side, and the gait pattern is affected. Treatment involves
surgical resection of the tendon with physical therapy following. The outcome is
very good. Another possibility which is fairly common is biceps tendonitis, in
which the dog presents with chronic, intermittent front leg lameness that is
usually worse after exercise. X-rays would be normal. Treatment for tendonitis is conservative, consisting of rest,
anti-inflammatory and physical therapy. I
hope this information helps. Veterinary physical therapy is an emerging
field.
Stacy
In my opinion , 4yrs does not make an old dog. In fact, a healthy 4yr old retriever is just coming in to its prime. I do have to make some assumptions about this new dog.
1. He is healthy and physically complete (no major missing parts)
2. He has some basic obedience and is socialized-to people and other dogs.
3. Since you contacted our web site you want to end up with some type of gun dog.
I would start as I do with all my new
pups. Get to be buddies and earn his trust. Play with him and slip in a little
dominance training. Go for long walks and runs to get him in to shape for field
draining and slip in a little obedience refresher while you are at it, You might
even enroll in an obedience class at a local club. While this is going on,
decide what you want to end up with, a non slip retriever or a
flushing-all-around gun dogs. Golden’s can do both very well. You might even
consider training him for hunt tests. More on that later.
The foundation of all retriever work is a fully force broke dog. He must
retrieve to hand RELIABLY. Force him to retrieve, it is not as bad
as it sounds. (The club holds a force break clinic each winter). For a good
non-slip retriever you need to work on two things. #1. Impeccable obedience and
manners, and of course #2 a desire for birds. Any good retriever book or video
will help. (The club has a good selection of both that can be checked out). And
for a good all around gun dog (upland flusher) you must teach quartering drills.
Get a book put out for training Springer Spaniels, those folks know how to teach
quartering. The methods I have used to teach flushing require a dog that
retrieves to hand and, has a desire for birds. The dogs I’ve trained comes out
of this training WILD for birds. If you got to the point of having an “in
control retriever” that loves birds, enter a Junior level Hunt Test. You will
meet people with like interests with more good ideas, and maybe get a ribbon f
or your efforts. Remember, retriever training is always a work in progress. Good
Luck, I’ll see you out training.
WP Stigma
PS He really does it this way. From Way More Jak’s Surprise SH, One Hip Dude JH, & Way More Come On Baby
NO. You can train a dog without a electronic training collar, (shock collar is no longer politically correct), but it will take you longer and be more difficult. It will be very crucial to be very consistent in the enforcement of your commands and to never give a command that you cannot enforce until you are fully confident that the dog will obey it every time. For example, if the dog is loose and running around, do not call him back if you don't have a check cord on him. If he ignores you, you will have no ability to correct him. The most likely response to this situation is for trainer to repeatedly yell at the dog to COME, to which the dog quickly learns to ignore. Without a training collar you will have to more fully engrain the commands into the dogs behavior because you wont be able to correct them at a distance.
Your question brings to mind a few comments about the use of a training
collar. If used correctly an electronic training collar is a great training aid.
The best way to think of a training collar is a long check cord. It will speed
up your training and in my opinion is a much more humane than more traditional
correction methods. The stimulation that the dog gets is very small and can be
proportioned to the situation. At most electronic collar clinics, the first
thing everyone does is feel the stimulation the dogs will be receiving. Most
people are amazed that they can just barely feel the stimulation. Training
collars are never used to teach a command, the are simply used to train the dog
to respond properly to a command that has already been taught. For example you
do not stimulate a dog because he wont come if he doesn't know what the come
command means. Once he knows the command, you put on the collar to train him to
come every time he is called.
Brent
Dogs where trained for hundreds of years without train collars.
Training collars can make life easier to train a dog if used properly. A
training collar if used improperly will create many problems that will be harder
to solve than have no collar. A collar is not a cure all for all dog
problems. So, do you "NEED" a training collar? NO!!!
Marty
The question is pretty vague w/o knowing what kind of problems he's having or
wether he know's how to use a shock collar? If it is basic control No! a
membership in GTSDC and involvement in a training group would benefit both dog
and handler most.
Michelle
I've got a dog that is 4 years old and has had hundreds if not thousands of
birds shot over her and is ran actively in field trials and she has never had a
shock collar placed on her except for a snake break clinic. However, your
situation maybe different and your question leaves much to the imagination (What
kind of dog work are you planning to do, are you just going to punish the dog
when it misbehaves, do you hunt 5-6 times a year and you want to add some
control; this is a very short list of question and doesn't even factor in the
mature of your dog and the types of correction it can handle). I think you be
way better off spending 30 bucks to join the local dog club and joining a
training group than running out and spending $300 and not having a clue of how
to use one. In general, If you have to ask--you should use one!
Kirby
Your question is pretty broad but will do the best to give you an answer. To
get a dog to point you first need to teach him WHOA which means to stop and
stand still no matter what. The point is then built off of that command. It is
easy to answer the retrieve question, which is to teach a "trained
retrieve". This used to be called force fetch. Space does not allow a
description of how to teach these two commands, WHOA and FETCH. Suffice it to
say there are several books, tapes, seminars that can teach you how to train the
dog on these commands. There are several methods of doing both, especially WHOA.
Check out material put out by Rick & Delmar Smith or Tri-Tronics.
Brent
It's a puppy--not a military recruit. It cant learn "it's
lessons" until it's ready. Let him/her grow up.
Kirby
My answer to your question is I think that you are pushing your pup a little
fast. My short hair at 2 1/2 yr. is just finally starting to mature where his
training is coming easer and he remembers. I am no expert by any means, but let
your put grow up. I pushed mine the first season and caused my self a lot
of problems
Dennis
You have to have three things at this point:
1. sit on command w/o fail
2. come on command w/0 fail
3. stay on command W/O fail
If he will not do these consistently any time, go back to them until he will. If
he gets bored w/ retrieving easily play fetch until your arm falls off. no
pressure only fun. distractions are a blessing it allows corrections use them as
often as possible and join a dog club it will give you great experience in
training.
Michael
Keep your training sessions very short & keep it simple. 5 minutes
may be all you get in. Do lots of short sessions in a day vs. one long
session. Teach your puppy like you would a pre-schooler.
Brent
Our club has sponsored 2 Rick Smith Clinics so we have a little knowledge
about the Smith "Silent Command System". There is a book about
Delmar system which is good but it is rather old and his son Rick has greatly
enhanced and broadened it. The book is BEST WAY TO TRAIN YOUR GUN DOG-THE
DELMAR SMITH METHOD BY BILL TARRANT. You can also check out Rick's
web site http://www.ricksmithkennels.com/.
It should give you some more info. Rick's method is for all breeds of
sporting dogs including flushers and retrievers. Rick has trained all 3
disciplines and has labs in his string when you go on one of his guided
hunts. his method is very productive & easy for both the handler
and the student. This will be the best money you ever spent on your
dog. It will last you a life time.
Brent
I was lucky, the breeder of my dog gave me a 24 week training list that he used on his, check with your breeder to see if they have something along those lines. It worked great. I would also encourage you to seek out a Retriever/Dog Club in your area. In addition, there are many videos and books out on this subject. One of the best and easiest to use in my opinion is the Tri-Tronics Retriever Training by Dobbs. The book takes you from the pup to the finished dog. It gives you options on what you want to do (sit to flush, trained retrieve, and handling).
Bryn
Since your Dog is 12 weeks old you should have already started training him
w/ sit and come. The Three most important foundations are come, sit and stay,
all training for retrievers are based on these three commands. I recommend two
books Game Dog by Robert Wolters, and Retriever Training by Jim and Phillis
Dobbs (Tri-Tronics) is where you can order the second book. Find a Dog Club in
your area and play fetch and throw training dummies until your arm falls
off.
Mike
You need to find a local club or buy a book or both. At 12 weeks the
puppy should be retrieving socks in the hall. This pup is to young for
much else.
Kirby
Not really, everyone is a little different. I use one toot to turn and
several short toots to come in. Not much more complicated than that.
A few
have used a stop whistle command but I wouldn't recommend it since someone
else may be able to stop your dog.
Brent
yes you train them the same way as any other pointing
dog. There is a man in Missoula that owns some dogs of that breed.
John
The only Spinone I ever saw was at a NAVHDA training clinic near Hot
Springs, Montana. I believe they are considered a versatile pointer and
think they probably would do well with the NAVHDA training techniques.
Check GunDog magazine for info about NAVHDA and the chapter nearest you for
potential contacts. My thought is they may need a little
"softer" handling than pointers.
Terry
Dave has judged several Spinones thru the
NAVHDA testing program. One of the main breeders/handlers in the U.S. is
Alison Schultz. Contact NAVHDA at www.navhda.org
for more info on the organization and some specific info on the breed.
Sissy
A lab can make an excellent companion with which to
hunt both water fowl and upland birds. I'm not sure what you mean by a "flusher/
pointer". Some labs do both but as a breed labs are retrievers and
flushers. A one year old dog, given the proper conditions, should be trainable. I
would check out the background of the owners/breeders and the dogs pedigree. Is
the dog healthy? Do the parents have good hips? Where are the litter mates and
are the owners of the litter mates happy with their dogs? Is this dog the
product of a repeat breeding? The siblings from a prior breeding often give a
good idea of how a young dog will develop.
Jim
First, check on the parents of the l yr. old and see
if they have had their hips X-rayed, and if so, what is the rating on each.
Find out some history on the parents, as to whether they were used to hunt or
were just companions. It is preferable to get a dog whose parents hunt.
It will take a lot of tender, loving care to train a l yr. old dog, just because
of the size of the dog. I start my dogs at 8 weeks old when they are
smaller and easier to handle and haven't developed any bad habits. Also,
they seem more willing to learn when younger. I'm not saying it can't be
done, to train an older dog, but it is a lot of work. You want to also consider
the cost of a l yr. old dog. I sell my pups for $600-800 and all of them have
developed into excellent hunters, field trial dogs as well as companions and a
started hunting dog usually would run about $3,000 or more. A fully
trained hunting dog could cost over $10,000. These are factors to take into
account when making your decision. You need to train a dog for one type of
hunting at a time. I usually hunt for one year on up-land and the second
year they go to the river for ducks and geese.
John
1. Labs make great duck dogs and upland dogs both but
normally will not point.
2. When trained well a lab makes an exceptional
pheasant dog
3. Buying a year old lab w/ no training is taking a gamble it can
be trained but might be more time than you want to spend. I would suggest a
puppy unless you’re getting the dog for free.
Michael
Not sure what you mean by pointer/flusher.
Traditionally labs are flushers. There is a sect out there that are
breeding "pointing labs" but then they are not flushers any more. Labs are
one of the recognized and widely used flushing dogs for upland birds, especially
pheasants. I feel their real strength comes out in retrieving wounded and
running birds. A well trained lab can trail a wounded bird for literally a
mile and come back with the bird. Labs are probably the most popular breed
in the US so consequently there are a lot of pups and dogs out there. The
gene pool goes from the dogs that have had all the hunt bred out of them to
National Champions with deep hunting roots. The hunting gene pool is
fairly shallow in chocolates and the predominate hunting dog is black.
That does not mean that there are no good chocolates out there, only that they
are harder to find. Same goes for yellow labs. Since this chocolate
is a year old you have the opportunity to see what he has as far as drive and
desire. Take him out in the field and if possible expose him to birds.
If the lack of desire and drive is there, don't waste your time no matter what
the price is. A free dog that you put a lot of training into that is
worthless is certainly not "free". You certainly can train a 1 year old
dog but the physical size of the dog makes it harder. Also watch out for
disposition. If the dog has aggressive tendencies, I would run not walk
away from the dog. There is too many dogs out their to deal with a dog
that has no desire or is aggressive. Desire and good temperment are what
God puts in the dog and you can not train them in. By looking for a pup
you open up your possibilities a bunch. Look for a pup from true hunting
parents. Watch out because everyone claims their dogs are "hunters".
If you can get a dog from a line that has hunting trial or test experience that
will help narrow the prospects. Also if possible watch the parents work.
Hunt over them if possible. Get with your local hunting dog club and they
can help you a lot with the local gene pool.
Brent
See the question #2. Especially with Retrievers you need to go through force fetch. Actually this is becoming an outdated term and we are using the term "Trained Retrieve". Let me rephrase your question into another training situation. "My dog wont heel. She used to walk at my heel with no problem, do I need to train her to heel." No one expects a dog to heel without training but for some reason we expect dogs to retrieve EVERYTIME with no training. Ever here of a natural heeler, course not. So why do we say natural retriever. Brent
In my opinion, get rid of the dog! There is no way I
would keep such a dog
around children. I doubt this behavior can be fixed permanently. This is
why I recommend Labs for families....they are gentle and obedient and
willing to learn, as well as being great hunters.
John
first
1. How old is the dog
2. What kind of dog?
3. This is definitely a strong trainers job
4. The dog must be punished severely any time it growls or snaps after getting
food.
5. If the dog is a puppy this is easy! Just give the dog food then take it
away if the dog growls or snaps slap the dog across the nose tell it no then
give it the food again take it away again same procedure until it quits growling
EVERY TIME YOU FEED IT!!!!!!!!!!
6. Then have one of the kids try it WITH THE TRAINER there to punish the dog if
it even starts to growl or snarl.
7. This should be done until anyone can come up to the dog and take it's
food....
Michael
This is a dominance issue and you need to get it fixed. I would agree
with the drill that Michael suggest above. The dog needs to be the lowest
member of the "family pack". This includes the kids. If you cant get
this fixed, I would agree with John and get a new dog before your kids get bit.
There are too many dogs in the world to keep a dog alive that might bite
someone. If you do get rid of it, don't sell it or give it away, you need
to put it down. You don't want to hear that this dog bit someone after you
sold or gave it away. That is a hard line but kids are much more important
than any dog.
Brent
Not sure what you mean by blinking birds. But if you think you are
having an adverse reaction to the gun, quit what you are doing. You need
to slowly introduce the gun. See the question on gun shyness. You
need to work in the sound of a small gun like a 22 pistol. Fire the blanks in
pistol when you are out on a walk in the field with the dog. Be sure the
dog is quite a ways away. If the dog reacts just act like nothing happened
at all. Do this a few times on each walk. Once the dog doesn't
react, fire the gun at closer range. Keep doing this till you can fire a
gun when the dog is close. Then go back to your training on birds with a
gun.
Brent
Two things:
1. Concentrate on the last sentence, just get rid of the pointer!
2. We actually put our waders on and get the dog used to going in the water.
It sounds like the dog is "puppy" swimming. Just hasn't figured out how to
swim. I would get in with the dog and continue throwing bumpers.
Bryn
If the dog likes to retrieve you can try throwing dummies or birds near the edge
of the water first. Then further out and see if he will swim after them, if you
have a good swimming dog to take with the setter that might work. Some dogs are
not going to like water no matter how hard you try.
John
I had a Lab that did the same thing, just keep letting the dog swim while
retrieving or having fun he will eventually learn to be efficient at swimming..
as long as he likes the water if not at least ya can send the good dog!!!
Micahel
Practice and more practice, Jack finally started swimming nicely after a two
week vacation up at the lake and swimming with Max.
Jeff
The only real solution is to keep at it but keep it fun so the dog will
like the water. Slowly progress the dog from just walking in the water to
short swims to long swims. You can use a check cord to gently pull the dog
in once he gets the bumper. This tends make them level out.
Brent
SHORT ANSWER: obedience first then hunting
LONG ANSWER:
The most important thing you can do now is to socialize the pup. Take him
for walks, let him run in the woods/fields. Let him get use to new smells,
expose him to kids, old people, black , white, green, etc. Put him in his
kennel and take him for rides in the truck. Anything you can think of but
do not expose him to gun fire/loud noises (there will be plenty of time for
that a little later when he is chasing a bird or retrieving bumpers and
someone is 100 yards away with a blank gun. I would not introduce him to
water until the water warms up in the spring. You want his first experience
to be a good one, cold water is not fun.
Jeff
Your puppy should be trained for obedience first. But your incorrect in
your assessment that he's capable of handling more than a few mins of
instruction. Let your dog grow up!
Kirby
ALWAYS Train for obedience first at four months your 2months behind in obedience
training hunting instinct comes naturally obedience doesn't...
Mike
What is the best way to stop the dog from flushing the
birds without a
e-collar?
Be faster then the dog.
Jeff
Have him join the dog club and train his dog. There are no quick fixes to
his mess ups in life!
Kirb
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